Matt Nathanson and I went to college together and as I confess to him early on in this episode, I’ve come to feel like he and I are on similar journeys in life. It’s an incredibly squishy and drippy thing to say and if I read it or overheard it, I’d probably roll my eyes. And yet here I am, coughing it up for you right here and also on the podcast. Back in the day (and also on the tenth episode of my podcast on which he guested) we fought good-naturedly about all sorts of stuff with the exception of the couple of times it felt not so good-natured. But these days we totally get along. On this episode we talk about ego states, parenthood, the necessity of being totally honest if you’re an artist, fame, poetry, Matt’s childhood and boarding school experience, his new album, infidelity, his family, his relationship with his parents, the Taylor Swift Incident, Bill Murray and so much more. We also took your questions over twitter and did a round of Just Me Or Everyone and he played a song.
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Great discussion on the (semi)normal psychology, as for the abnormal psychology here is my non-psychologist take: psychopaths have no (or few, or can switch on and off depending on their goals) empathy brain pathways. Sociopaths develop the ability ignore empathy through trauma and abuse (and perhaps a mild inate psychopathy). Narcissists need people but only in order to fill their insecurity with “narcissistic supply” which is praise and status. So, if you don't provide those you basically don't exist or if you ding it expect “narcissistic rage.” Without empathy and seeing other people as their own individual, all three tend to be left relating to other humans based on status and hierarchy. They all tend to treat other people as instruments. The difference appears to be what usage they tend to expect from these instruments. So, if you disrespect a psychopath you will be targeted, perhaps because their hierarchical status affects their ability to achieve specific goals- but he doesn't need your praise. Sociopaths are more anti-social, maybe because they resent societal rules that failed them, but the definition of these folks is still in flux. If you embarrass a narcissist they respond with rage because they see their identity in a superficial self-centered and self-conscious dependence on external evaluation, which is basically them recognizing you are useless for filling their most desired needs if you don't fill their narcissism bucket. It is weird that they would cut off their family based on their false idea of society's opinion of them, but that is what makes them crazy.
Great discussion on the (semi)normal psychology, as for the abnormal psychology here is my non-psychologist take: psychopaths have no (or few, or can switch on and off depending on their goals) empathy brain pathways. Sociopaths develop the ability ignore empathy through trauma and abuse (and perhaps a mild inate psychopathy). Narcissists need people but only in order to fill their insecurity with “narcissistic supply” which is praise and status. So, if you don’t provide those you basically don’t exist or if you ding it expect “narcissistic rage.” Without empathy and seeing other people as their own individual, all three tend to be left relating to other humans based on status and hierarchy. They all tend to treat other people as instruments. The difference appears to be what usage they tend to expect from these instruments. So, if you disrespect a psychopath you will be targeted, perhaps because their hierarchical status affects their ability to achieve specific goals- but he doesn’t need your praise. Sociopaths are more anti-social, maybe because they resent societal rules that failed them, but the definition of these folks is still in flux. If you embarrass a narcissist they respond with rage because they see their identity in a superficial self-centered and self-conscious dependence on external evaluation, which is basically them recognizing you are useless for filling their most desired needs if you don’t fill their narcissism bucket. It is weird that they would cut off their family based on their false idea of society’s opinion of them, but that is what makes them crazy.
I wonder who you were discussing that he says is a sociopath. I can think of someone who I'm not going to conclude is a sociopath because there is some un-objective judgment going on. But the shortcut for a narcissist is if they spend a lot of their energy managing their image. A psychopath can seem inconsiderate, but mostly they ignore people to acccomplish goals or to entertain themselves- they often seem to have a high need for activity and excitement. The sociopath would tend to be more cruel because they enjoy hurting others whereas the psychopath will hurt you if you get in their way or imply that you are superior to them and the narcissist will hurt you if you threaten their image.
I wonder who you were discussing that he says is a sociopath. I can think of someone who I’m not going to conclude is a sociopath because there is some un-objective judgment going on. But the shortcut for a narcissist is if they spend a lot of their energy managing their image. A psychopath can seem inconsiderate, but mostly they ignore people to acccomplish goals or to entertain themselves- they often seem to have a high need for activity and excitement. The sociopath would tend to be more cruel because they enjoy hurting others whereas the psychopath will hurt you if you get in their way or imply that you are superior to them and the narcissist will hurt you if you threaten their image.